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painservedcold



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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:39 pm

She's dead. Can't we all just leave her alone now? I find it really distasteful when people actively celebrate the death of another human being, no matter what they've done.
Everyone is someone's son or daughter, and I think we too often dehumanize those we have issues with.

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:03 am

I've weighed in on this issue a lot on Facebook (as you may have seen) but I'd like to share my stance on Thatcher here because I think it's a n incredibly important discussion to have.

Firstly, she did some awful things
  • She basically killed British industry by actively encouraging unemployment and raising taxes repeatedly during economic recessions
  • She killed off trade unions during the Miner's Strike, often through the use of incredibly ethically and legally suspect police tactics
  • She refused to impose economic sanctions on South Africa in response to the apartheid, completely undermining the power of sanctions imposed by other nations
  • When several hundred football fans were killed due to a police oversight in the Hillsborough disaster, she helped cover up the mistakes made by the police meaning what was a tragedy became a conspiracy that is still being uncovered today, causing pain and suffering to thousands of friends and relatives of the victims
  • She sold off countless nationalised companies because of her belief in the power of the free market, which is why the majority of train services in Britain are unreliable, have incredibly poor quality tracks and cars and rail travel costs far more than it does in pretty much every other country in the Western world
  • Most obviously damning from my perspective, she implemented a piece of legislation commonly known as Section 28, which forbade teachers and anyone working with young people from 'promoting homosexuality' or presenting a homosexual relationship as legitimate and morally equal to a heterosexual relationship, which made teachers powerless to combat homophobic bullying in case they were seen to promote homosexuality, or teach about homosexual relationships in any way other than a negative one (by and large, homosexuality was just ignored, the love that dare not speak its name indeed). That policy remained enshrined in law until 2003. Oh, and she got rid of free milk for schoolchildren.


In essence, Thatcher thought the economy was far more important than her people, she couldn't give two shits about the poor, she didn't believe in 'society' and thought individualism and self-interest should be encouraged at the expense of helping others, she dismantled the institutions which made Britain great and sold them off, piecemeal, to the highest bidder, and she didn't care much for blacks or gays. By all accounts, she was a bit of a bitch.

Secondly, there's the issue of celebrating someone's death. I refuse to make any moral judgement about this, I see it as a morally neutral issue. The argument that it might be upsetting to her family I don't accept - the vast majority of people who have expressed happiness at her death are not remotely acquainted with her family and their expressions of happiness will never be seen by her family. Anyway, she was a public figure who ran a country for a bloody long time. When you work in the public eye and your employment status is determined by the collective will of general public over whom you have a significant amount of power, you have to expect that people will have strong feelings about you and will express them.

But far more importantly, people have a right to hold and express their opinions and people have a good reason to hate Margaret Thatcher for the impact she had on our society in the UK. Whether it's 'reasonable' or 'healthy' to hold a grudge against a political figure long after she loses power is an interesting question, but whether or not someone was a bad ruler isn't changed by the fact that last time we asked the question, she was living and now she's dead. She still had the same impact on the world.

The thing is, a lot of people complaining about people celebrating Thatcher's death direct their anger on people, like myself, who take the opportunity of her being in the news to discuss (and, yes, criticise) her politics and her government.What's more, 90% of the people who complain about this celebration go on to say "also I think Thatcher's great and if you disagree with me in any way you're being disrespectful and therefore your opinion of her politics is invalid". There's a difference between an ad hominem attack and a legitimate criticism of a person's political stance and their actions, which is being ignored in favour of sweeping ALL criticism and debate under the rug so that her proponents can glorify her unopposed. How a political figure is eulogised is more often than not how they're remembered. If we do not remember truly how Thatcher fucked over our nation we run the risk of allowing it to be fucked over again.

I don't see the fact that it seems *distasteful* to celebrate someone's death as at all relevant. People have a right to express their opinions and Margaret Thatcher did a whole lot of terrible things so it's not wonder if those opinions are not only negative but strongly emotive as well. What's more, I don't think it's that much of a problem. I've seen far more comments about how distasteful it is to celebrate another person's death in every level of the media than I've seen things which actually celebrate her death. And funnily enough, when Bin Laden was killed, I don't recall anyone saying it's distasteful to celebrate his death or that we should be thinking of his family, but when it's a controversial figure that some people inexplicably like, suddenly we trot out the "my gut reaction to this is to be offended on someone else's behalf" and apparently that's a legitimate reason why I shouldn't say Thatcher was a bad person.

Anyway, if I were a cynic I'd say that the fact that posts about how we shouldn't insult that lady because it's mean or something have been far more prevalent than posts insulting that dead lady make me think that this is a non-event manufactured by the media to sell newspapers and get clicks because once you've said that someone died and how they died there's not a lot more actual news and a debate about a subjective, abstract concept that everyone has an opinion on and nobody can really be 'right' about can be dragged out for weeks without ever coming to a satisfactory conclusion. Just remember - the point of news is to inform people of new things that have happened or are happening. The point of news corporations is to make money. Which purpose do you think gets more consideration when they come up with headlines?

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:20 pm

the latter.


"by all accounts, she was a bit of a bitch." that made me crack up haha

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painservedcold



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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:40 pm

I don't disagree with anything you've said Alex. Even from the perspective of memorializing her actions in order to prevent similar government failures, I don't see what's gained by attacking her. Particularly with ad hominem attacks, which I have seen a fair few of. Dancing in the streets and singing 'ding dong the witch is dead' may feel good, but I fail to see how it brings about any kind of attention to her piss poor political ideology.
Which is something I think should happen. Commenting on her atrocious policy direction is legitimate, and truthfully I don't see it an attack on her to point out what she did caused severe harm to large segments of the population. It's a minor distinction between a personal attack and a policy critique, but it's an important one in my view and it is something I view quite differently.
As someone who lives in Britain, I'll of course be willing to accept your understanding of her reign, especially since you lived in the aftermath and implementation phase of those policies. It's just been a disappointment to me that many on the political left, especially here in North America, take an inordinate amount of pleasure in the failings and harm that comes to our opponents. It's made me a bit bitter towards other kinds of outbursts.

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:26 am

I think the vindictiveness is understandable if not exactly praiseworthy in those who directly suffered the consequences of her policies, but I think more generally that this is just the latest example of this poisonous idea that there are 'left' and 'right' people, or 'liberal' and 'conservative'. It's classic ingroup-outgroup psychology that results from this ridiculous presumption that there are two political or economic standpoints which exist in complete opposition to one another - a presumption which is shoved down our throats by a web of news media organisations which benefit from the appeal of a simplistic us-vs-them political narrative.

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:34 pm

actually, a couple months ago, i wrote a 6 page paper in 50 minutes precisely on this whole "youre either liberal or conservative" mindset society seems to have in so many places. 6 page paper, 50 minutes, got an A- ;D

in other news, i guess uruguay just passed gay marriage & in france, it passed the senate. yay

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:12 pm

Not that I normally find myself defending the ideological dichotomy, but it's a bit more than just a simplistic representation of the politics of a given region. Yes, there are different axes and issues that create their own oppositional points, but we should keep in mind that in many cases, the political structures and ideologies of different parties *are* opposed to one another.
Where I find the media gets it wrong is that they treat politics like a game, where each party is supposed to focus on winning the game, however that's being defined by the media that week. We focus all our energy on getting the best news outcomes that our politicians at times forget the reasons they're supposed to be governing. And make no mistake, there are serious differences and points of contention between the 'left' and the 'right', however that's defined in your jurisdiction. Those 'left' and 'right' groups may even change depending on what the specific issue is, but it's important to accept that those principles and differences in worldview are real. Papering over them by calling it a result of social psychology isn't fair, since the impacts on society differ widely depending on which ideology holds sway in the present moment.

Congrats to Uruguay and France, looks like South America is becoming a leader in LGBTQ+ rights

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:01 pm

She stopped free MILK for school children?!

Kell, I'd love to read that paper.
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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:28 pm

i have a tendency to not save my papers once im done with them. sorry :/

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:17 am

so today, 2 explosions went off in boston near the finish line of the boston marathon. 3 people were killed & over 130 were hurt. its making major news right now & from last i heard, they dont have anyone in custody. theres already politics & rumors around it. i heard one report that it was a saudi nationalist, another say it was al queda, another say it was a psycho who escaped from an institution, another say it was a corrupt former boston police officer...its been crazy all day

and for a cherry on top, the westboro baptist church apparently tweeted that they plan on protesting at the funerals of the 2 who died & in the general boston area. i commented on a friend's facebook post that for the bomber's next trick, s/he should blow up the WBC which i wholeheartedly mean.
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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:09 pm

The US Defense of Marriage Act was ruled unconstitutional, meaning that federal benefits can now be conferred on same-sex couples who are either in a civil union or marriage, in states that allow for either of those living arrangements. Proposition 8, the California ban on same-sex marriage, was also denied standing to sue today, which means that in the state of California, same-sex marriage is now legal again.

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:15 am

WOOOOOOOO!

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:20 am

Today is Canada Day. This year we're celebrating 146 years of peacefully negotiated independence from Great Britain and the union of four disparate colonies into a single Dominion. It's amazing to think that Canada originally started as four relatively small colony provinces, and eventually expanded to span seven time zones and stretching from coast to coast to coast in North America. We didn't always do this peacefully, or with the best of intentions, but I'm lucky to be a Canadian, and it's nice to have a day to celebrate who we are and what we have.

http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/mapping/historical_maps/images/maps/1867.png

Cheers kids

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:41 am

painservedcold wrote:
...peacefully negotiated independence...

SEE AMERICA, SOME PEOPLE AREN'T DICKS ABOUT WANTING THEIR FREEDOM. MAYBE YOU COULD LEARN SOMETHING!

Bloody tea-dumpers Razz

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:12 am

painservedcold wrote:
Today is Canada Day.  This year we're celebrating 146 years of peacefully negotiated independence from Great Britain and the union of four disparate colonies into a single Dominion.  It's amazing to think that Canada originally started as four relatively small colony provinces, and eventually expanded to span seven time zones and stretching from coast to coast to coast in North America.  We didn't always do this peacefully, or with the best of intentions, but I'm lucky to be a Canadian, and it's nice to have a day to celebrate who we are and what we have.  

http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/mapping/historical_maps/images/maps/1867.png

Cheers kids

Bonne fête du Canada!
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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:16 am

Thanks lovelies.

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:27 am

Sabazius wrote:
painservedcold wrote:
...peacefully negotiated independence...

SEE AMERICA, SOME PEOPLE AREN'T DICKS ABOUT WANTING THEIR FREEDOM. MAYBE YOU COULD LEARN SOMETHING!

Bloody tea-dumpers Razz


we left because we didnt appreciate his majesty's government's refusal to grant us our legal colonial chartered right to have representatives on our behalf go to parliament & advocate laws on our behalf. thats hardly "dickish" lol

as for the tea, well....i dont care for tea anyway xD

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:28 am

You don't like tea?

I have to seriously re-evaluate our friendship. Tea is just... you're a heathen, that's all.

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:20 pm

i like iced tea, to an extent.

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:13 pm

so on wednesday, there was a stabbing here on my campus. a girl on one of the student shuttles was sliced on the arm & then when the driver went to go help her, he was stabbed in the chest. it's been a pretty big news story in mass.

in related news, since i work security gigs for campus events, the campus police chief is considering expanding our duties to include potentially walking students back to their dorms late at night, like an escort service (NON-SEXUAL, EPHRAIM), if they feel unsafe. so i might die soon, just letting u guys know.

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:44 pm

YOU KNOW ME SO WELL KELLEN!!

Just be careful and go to some self defense classes. And tell one of us (me) what the plot for the rest of the stories are.
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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:33 am

i don't discuss future story plots in the news & current events topic.

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:19 am

PM me.
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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:23 am

*correction: i don't discuss future story plots

Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: News & Current Events   Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:25 am

Not even when your life is in danger and you're about to die?

Hell of a writer, you are! Caring so much about your readers! You DISGUST me! Gah!Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad 
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