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Mr. Mike

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:08 am

painservedcold wrote:
In regards to the idea of people in the closet being invisible and hiding from the world, that is sometimes a necessity when one isn't sure of the results of coming out. In many cases though, I think the fear of potential reactions is overestimated, since these people who are your friends and family stand by you for a reason, and it shouldn't be something to hide from them since they will most likely accept you unconditionally anyways
I agree but you have to admit the very fact that one HAS to 'come out' is pretty weird. Straight people don't have to come out! Most people are assumed to be straight. Why should I have to declare my sexual orientation AT ALL? Imagine how different the world would have to be for same gender couples to be as unremarkable an occurrence as opposite gender couples. I remember when I first started thinking about this when I was a little kid, inside my head I just thought, WHAT IS THE BIG FUCKING DEAL? WHO CARES?! Obviously some people DO care and have made it their business to try and make everyone else think the way they do. BUT, basically I agree. My experience is, most people (not all, but most) just don't GIVE A SHIT what you are -- as long as you are a good person. (Good person meaning, intelligent, honest, hard working, etc.)
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:15 am

painter wrote:
painservedcold wrote:
In regards to the idea of people in the closet being invisible and hiding from the world, that is sometimes a necessity when one isn't sure of the results of coming out. In many cases though, I think the fear of potential reactions is overestimated, since these people who are your friends and family stand by you for a reason, and it shouldn't be something to hide from them since they will most likely accept you unconditionally anyways

I agree but you have to admit the very fact that one HAS to 'come out' is pretty weird. Straight people don't have to come out! Most people are assumed to be straight. Why should I have to declare my sexual orientation AT ALL? Imagine how different the world would have to be for same gender couples to be as unremarkable an occurrence as opposite gender couples. I remember when I first started thinking about this when I was a little kid, inside my head I just thought, WHAT IS THE BIG FUCKING DEAL? WHO CARES?! Obviously some people DO care and have made it their business to try and make everyone else think the way they do. BUT, basically I agree. My experience is, most people (not all, but most) just don't GIVE A SHIT what you are -- as long as you are a good person. (Good person meaning, intelligent, honest, hard working, etc.)

The problem isn't with the uncaring majority, its with the angry minority on one side that demands that we not exist, or if we do we exist in as unhappy an existence as possible, and on our other side there's the equally angry minority that demands that we be as militant as possible about our sexual orientations, with some of those people intentionally flaunting who they are simply to aggrivate others.
Its sad because the rest of us are quite unfortunately caught between the two extremes, and sometimes that leads people to assume that we have to act like those extremes, or we have to act like the "rest of society" in order to avoid being known as gay.
I completely agree though, it'd be great if it simply didn't matter about sexual orientation, but as long as people are allowed to misquote religious texts in order to promote hate, we're more likely to develop wings than eliminate that kind of heteronormative society.

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Mr. Mike

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:25 am

painservedcold wrote:
The problem isn't with the uncaring majority, its with the angry minority on one side that demands that we not exist, or if we do we exist in as unhappy an existence as possible, and on our other side there's the equally angry minority that demands that we be as militant as possible about our sexual orientations, with some of those people intentionally flaunting who they are simply to aggrivate others.
Its sad because the rest of us are quite unfortunately caught between the two extremes, and sometimes that leads people to assume that we have to act like those extremes, or we have to act like the "rest of society" in order to avoid being known as gay.
I completely agree though, it'd be great if it simply didn't matter about sexual orientation, but as long as people are allowed to misquote religious texts in order to promote hate, we're more likely to develop wings than eliminate that kind of heteronormative society.
"Allowed" to misquote religious texts? People believe all kinds of crazy ass crap but what are you going to do -- make it illegal? No the problem is a matter of social control -- always has been. You want to fuck with a particular demographics head and power? Ok, pick out something they enjoy doing and make it illegal. Now you've got them by the balls because you KNOW they're still going to do it. Doesn't matter whether it is suck dick, smoke refer or fuck little girls -- it all amounts to the same thing: CONTROL. That most of the controllers do one or ALL of the above is no surprise. It isn't the DOING that is the issue -- it is the CONTROl factor. So, yeah, you can be a bishop or a congressman and suck dick 24/7, no problem, so long as you do what you are told. But, step out of line and k-ching, k-ching.

IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:37 am

Don't put my words into a context they're not created for si vous plait.
"Allow" them to misquote religious texts is exactly what I meant. These people, and we all know them, quote specific passages of their texts out of context and no one, not one single person from that religion who would be placed to say otherwise does so. You keep hearing Leviticus 18:22 being used against gays, where the hell is the Pope or the local bishop or whoever you choose to accept as an authority on scripture? Why aren't THEY pushing back against deliberate misinterpretation of their religion's texts? You know why? Because they don't want to help us or accept us, they allow the misquotations of their texts because they endorse what the bigoted hatemongers are doing, and lay society simply accepts that these people know what they're talking about instead of rising up and saying that its not right. That's what I mean by allowing them to misquote religious texts.

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:47 am

Ok. I agree -- and it fits right in w/ what I was saying. Prohibitions against homosexuality are actually relatively recent phenomena in the history of Western civilization and a direct out-growth of the Christian cult adopted by the Roman Emperors who, in a stroke of genius, figured out that one could have near absolute rule not by declaring oneself a god but by declaring that one is the spokes person for God on Earth. No where in Christian scripture does it clearly state that being homosexual is an abomination worse than eating pork. Personally, I prefer beef sausage. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:56 am

You only like beef because you're clearly not being fed proper pork, Pork is clearly the most delicious protein ever conceived by nature or a deity.


Heathen was a touch strong a word, though I stand by the idea that if you don't idolize pig based food, there's something wrong with your tastebuds.

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Erick



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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:46 am

Thank you nick for the advice.

You guys awesome and funny. Thank you guys for the help.

I have a big problem though, how come no one said anything about how HOT Hunter Parrish is!

You guys suck!

I feel a bit lighter now that i've expressed what i've been bottling up, hopefully i could take the next step.

by the way guys...IM GAY. i think...haha i still need to put a __ in my mouth to make sure.

But yeah thanks a bunch.
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ems

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:49 am

hey erick, welcome to kabe! not everyone here is out, people can learn from your experience too. i am out only to my 2 best friends and i think that my brother also knows now, idk about the last. anyways, for me the things has been to come out like one by one, or one group of people at a time. so yeah... that's from me, Ephraim or as people call me around here E (please note: CAPITALIZED E!)
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:58 am

Don't worry about swearing or using profanity around here, we all love it lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:05 pm

**looks at epic pages of convo**

**blinks**

THIS is why it sucks living in a totally different time zone to the rest of the damned forum! Haha

Hey Erick, fantastic to meet you, I really hope you stick around here in our little corner of internet paradise Very Happy
With regards to your coming out, everyone has said some excellent things. I think the important thing to remember is that the people who you fear to tell love you, and even if they do have issues with homosexuality (which for the most part it sounds like they don't) I think it is very likely that you are more important to them than their prejudices and misconceptions about your sexuality. Also there is a chance that some of the people you know might have some idea already that you aren't straight.

With regards to what you said about the 'younger generation' (this will be on topic Kell, I promise!) I'm continually astounded by how fast our society moves. I mean I'm eighteen and already I see gay kids growing up into a world that's very different form the one I remember, coming out at thirteen or earlier in some cases, having no trouble whatsoever standing up for themselves and being proud of their sexuality, never even questioning if it is wrong or unnatural, and that makes me feel old! I think the way to look at it is as something to really take pride in and appreciate that we are rapidly coming to create a world where being gay is OK. And of course there is always a group of people who don't respect that, and there will even be gay people who were brought up to think that being gay is something to be ashamed of or to hide, but we can't let them be in control, any more than we as a society have anything to do with groups like the KKK (sadly in my home country we have groups like the BNP - vile, disgusting, racist and homophobic organizations - being given a public forum to spread their hatred because they have a right to free speech. Democracy in action folks! haha)

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Erick



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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:06 pm

Thanks for the kind words Sabazius.

I've always dream of growing up in Europe. I always thought the people there are so free and open minded. Well at least that's what it seems like whenever i'm there. The only place i feel free is when i'm in Europe. Regretted not going to a University there.

Anyone else here from EU?
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PostSubject: Welcome!   Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:43 am

First of all don't let anyone elses coming out story scare you- of all of the hundreds I have heard, no two are alike.

Along those lines no matter how horrific they are- everyone I have spoken with feels better for having been through it and getting it past.

That said- it is your story to write and thus it happens when you are ready. It is not about the other people, their reactions, what they think, or what others think you should do. It is about you.

The best advice I ever got about coming out was this "Its your story to write and to tell. How you tell people- with confidence and honesty or fear and shyness will have a bigger affect your your story than anything they say or do."

Hope it helps... even if only a little!

Oh and Welcome to our little corner of the net!
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ems

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:01 am

if you guys havent noticed (the ones on FB with me) im using FB to come out to the majority of my good friends. i took kell's advice (ewww! lol) and im putting it out there jokingly. and later on tell them that its true... its going ok i guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:27 pm

ems wrote:
if you guys havent noticed (the ones on FB with me) im using FB to come out to the majority of my good friends. i took kell's advice (ewww! lol) and im putting it out there jokingly. and later on tell them that its true... its going ok i guess.
haha -- no I hadn't noticed but that's great. Praise to Kell for that idea! Not totally a new concept but having FB to do it is helpful in a way. Congratulations!
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:54 pm

if by jokingly, u mean if ppl ask if yer into guys & u actually lie & say u dont, than i dont want yer thanks. if u dont wanna admit it 2 ppl, thats different. but actually lying is sumthin i dont wanna be thanked 4.

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:49 am

Hey name's Seth ,new here and well i feel like telling my coming out story.........hmmm where to start oh ummm i've pretty much told most of my close friends and all of them have been supportive. Even told the boy i like im bi and he's supportive. My family has been suprortive too everybody except for my dad. My mom later told me that he said it was my her fault..... thank god im not living with him. So ya kept it as short as possible
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:58 am

good. i like shortness. sumtimes...lol Very Happy


so wat xactly dusnt yer dad like about it?

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:11 am

My mom didnt really want to go into it but i know he still treats me like his little child and i dont think he likes the idea of me changing. All my mother said was that he was saying i wanted an identity.
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ems

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:35 am

dare de-vil wrote:
if by jokingly, u mean if ppl ask if yer into guys & u actually lie & say u dont, than i dont want yer thanks. if u dont wanna admit it 2 ppl, thats different. but actually lying is sumthin i dont wanna be thanked 4.

i didnt say that i was not into guys. well, it started off at social interview where i names 3 most important things. and one of them happened to be the the guy i like, i didnt name him ofc. but when a friend of mine asked who it was and was it a boy or a girl, i said it was a boy with a couple of smilies that kinda implies that im joking. that was the first one the second one was when a firend had her status "when i'm with him im thinking of you....Wink" i said "been there, done that" and i put out, once again jokingly, that there was this guy that i liked and they didnt know about it.

lately whenever people ask me, i dont tell them i am not into boys, but neither do i tell them that im into them...
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PostSubject: rawr   Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:30 am

Hey Seth nice to meet you Very Happy i think its pretty cool you already came out to your friends and family and such ( wish i could do the same hehe) though my mom knows and so does some of my good friends, Hope you stick around Very Happy Bi people got it way more fun! Very Happy

"runs away from mamma Kell when he comes with his spoon"

On the other topic, I dont really like the whole facebook thing for things like coming out heh but i guess thats my opinion, I aint really scared of telling people i am bi, i just dont think facebook would be the place to tell all my friends HEY all I am bisexuel wooo! but again thats my opinion.

NOW who is up for some rugby? :Dw
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:35 pm

Hey seth! I'm sorry but I didn't see your post back there. Welcome to kabe!
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:21 am

Wasn't sure which thread would be best for it. Kell, change it to wherever it needs to go.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/3/842722/-My-Nephew-was-outted,-and-then-kicked-out-of-school-

On that note. What the hell? I wholeheartedly disagree with the policy of this school; separation of church and state and the ensuing ability of religious schools to do as they please be damned. This is NOT about religious rights here. This is about education, and the fact that people are allowing their personal beliefs to throw out a student who would otherwise have graduated with honours. For all intents and purposes, this boy's life is on hold unless and until his aunt is able to find him a school, AND he's able to reconcile any differences in graduation requirements between the North Carolina and Florida school systems. That to me is irresponsible of the school to humiliate one of their charges and force such a drastic change in his life circumstances.

Discuss.

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:51 am

painservedcold wrote:
.... I wholeheartedly disagree with the policy of this school; separation of church and state and the ensuing ability of religious schools to do as they please be damned. This is NOT about religious rights here. This is about education, and the fact that people are allowing their personal beliefs to throw out a student who would otherwise have graduated with honours. For all intents and purposes, this boy's life is on hold unless and until his aunt is able to find him a school, AND he's able to reconcile any differences in graduation requirements between the North Carolina and Florida school systems. That to me is irresponsible of the school to humiliate one of their charges and force such a drastic change in his life circumstances.

Yeah, well, of course you and I "wholeheartedly disagree" with this policy. But they don't care what you or I think, do they? Clearly "education" is not the first priority of this school, nor is it protecting student's rights or embodying what I believe to be true Christian values such as love, compassion, generosity, understanding, so on and so forth. They are clearly bigots full of hate and prejudice with a patina of self-ritiousness -- thus that they behave like bigots should come with no shock or surprise. I feel badly for the kid but the fact is we live in a fucked up world -- this is just one relatively minor example (all things considered). These so-called "Christians" (I grew up among such) are EXACTLY the kind of people who would try, torture and crucify a true Son of God should they ever happen to meet one. That is how myopically SIN (the original Greek word meaning 'to miss the mark') FUL these heretics actually are.
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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:13 am

What's disappointing is that this school is going to do this and there won't be a single penalty or word said. Human nature continues to disappoint me, even as I wish that such people are in the minority and are being replaced by more progressive thinkers.

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PostSubject: Re: Coming Out   Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:38 am

The worst thing for me about this story is that the mother told him he was sinful and evil, and then told the writer of this article (the aunt, her sister) to send him to one of those fucking 'cure' places. How fucking horrible is that? For that level of irrational hatred and bigotry to exist and be so strong as to override the love of one family member for another sickens me. Eurgh. My heart goes out to that poor guy Sad

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